Emblems of Easymode

OK, every one is on the bandwagon talking about the emblem changes.
Before I get too far into this, I want to say I don’t have a very strong opinion about the whole mess. I’m a little irked about it and have a couple beefs, but I can also see how this will benefit me. I’m trying to find the silver lining here.
In case you’ve been living under a rock, here’s what Blizz has up their sleeve:
quote
Emblem System Changes
Both the 10 and 25-player instances of the Crusaders’ Coliseum drop a new Emblem of Triumph.
Any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.
The Heroic dungeon daily quest will now reward 2 Emblems of Triumph and the normal daily dungeon quest will reward 1 Emblem of Triumph.
The existing achievements to collect 1, 25, 50, etc. Emblems of Heroism, Valor, and Conquest have been converted to Feats of Strength since Heroism and Valor Emblems are no longer attainable.
New achievements have been added to collect various amounts of any combination of emblems.
end quote
So today:
Heroic 5-man = EoH
Daily Heroic = EoH
VoA 10 = EoH
Naxx 10 = EoH
Naxx 25 = EoV
Uld 10 = EoV
VoA 25 = EoV (Archavon only)
VoA 25 = EoC (Emalon only)
Uld 25 = EoC
Emblem exchange is roughly like:
EoH = Tier 7/ilevel 200/heirloom items
EoV = Tier 7.5/ilevel 213
EoC = Tier 8/ilevel 226
And in the possible future:
Heroic 5-man = EoC
Daily Normal = EoT
Daily Heroic = EoT
VoA 10 = EoC
Naxx 10 = EoC
Naxx 25 = EoC
Uld 10 = EoC
VoA 25 = EoC
Uld 25 = EoC
Coliseum 10 = EoT
Coliseum 25 = EoT
Emblem exchange should look like:
EoC = Tier 7 – Tier 8/ilevel 200 – 226/heirloom items
EoT = Tier 9/ilevel 232+
I think Blizz’s intention is to remove gear as the obstacle for people seeing content. Mind you, Naxx and Uld are going to be old content by the time this happens. (And let’s face it, this is from the PTR notes, this may never see the light of day.)
Beef #1: Why have the dailies give EoT? I do feel those should be EoC. When the content is older, say the next patch after this, then I probably wouldn’t care,but it seems like a bit of a jump to go from Heroic to Tier 9.
What seems to be the problem?
The problem is that a fresh 80 can run heroics until his fingers bleed (or be carried through them) and purchase some snazzy Tier 8 and possibly Tier 9 gear, without having to bother with that pesky Tier 7 or even ilevel 200 crap.
This not-quite-so-fresh anymore 80 (it will take many, many runs to get enough emblems to gear this way) could then enter LFG for the Coliseum.
A quick armory shows that he’s Ulduar-level geared, so he gets invited.
He then causes a massive wipe because he’s never cleared Naxx but he’s run Heroic Nexus every day for 3 months.
What is the real problem?
Evaluating a player’s gear will no longer be an effective method of determining skill.
But you know what?
It’s not effective today.
I’ve been in plenty of PuGs where people meet the gear requirements set by the raid leader and still die in the fire. Other players in greens and blues are blowing them out of the water.
As I said several posts back,
quote
Gear makes a player prettier. It does not automatically make a player better.
end quote
Euripedes said it another way in one of his comments:
quote
I mean, if someone who’s never been outside of a heroic instance rolls into Ulduar with all his new shinies, he’s not going to magically apparate the skill needed to raid there.
He’s just going to look cool when he wipes.
endquote
So if we can’t use gear to exclude people, what do we use?
Comparing achievements is probably going to be the smarter way to go about weeding out baddies.
Beef #2: On my server at least, about 2 days after content hits all the LFG looks like: “LFM for InstanceX, link stats and achievement.”
This could make it even harder to get around the achievement requirements.
Are there any other problems?
Well yeah, the people that have Tier 8 now won’t be special snowflakes because all these other scrubs also have Tier 8.
Except those players that were cutting edge to Tier 8 are now going to be cutting edge to Tier 9. They shouldn’t care about Tier 8 anymore.
Will scrubs be able to get Tier 9?
Yes, it looks like they can slowly accrue enough EoT through the dailies to get a few Tier 9 pieces.
So we’ll call those “welfare nines” and we’ll look for the BoP items that prove you were there and did that.
If a baddy slips through the cracks, he gets booted. Keep note of who did well and who didn’t. Ya know, same as we do today when we pick up someone that has been carried through content.
I don’t have a beef with this.
So where’s that silver lining?
I’m leveling an alt. Other people are leveling alts.
Ever had a situation like, “Oh noes, so and so (top healer or tank) is going away foreva and we need someone to fill their place. Quick! Everyone level a healing/tanking alt!”?
And everyone groans because this means that the Ulduar-raiding guild now has to slog through Naxx again to get the gear for the alt to progress.
Or… now you can bust out some chain heroics, run a raid or two, and fill in the missing pieces with badges.
The alts won’t be top-of-the-line geared, but it will be good enough to get them back into a raid and let the player show that skill can make up for some discrepancy in gear.
I don’t see this change benefiting BRAND NEW players that are making the climb from 1 to 80. The really good players will steamroll through everything, just as they would have before, maybe faster. The mediocre players may see a little benefit since they have decent, tangible goals to shoot for in gear. This may keep them in the game long enough to pick up the missing piece in play or mechanics and become a decent raider. The baddies… will still be bad. They’ll have gear, but they won’t have titles and achievements. At least, no more than they do now.
For ALTS, I see this as a massive benefit. My guild won’t have to grind Naxx repeatedly just to get me geared enough to run in Ulduar on my priest. I’ll be able to PuG heroics (much less painful than raids) and get caught up. I will still have to run some content to get the badges, so I will still have the opportunity to learn the nuances of my new class. Blizz is not just mailing epics to people – you still have to have the time/patience/skill to run enough of something to get the badges. Or sucker enough people into carrying you through, but how is that different from now?
For people that BUY ACCOUNTS, this will come back to bite them in the ass, sort of like it does now.
Suggestions:
Drop the dailies from EoT to EoC to avoid that huge ilevel jump.
Add something like a Raid Weekly that would reward EoT for things like taking down specific bosses in Naxx/Uld/VoA/EoE/OS. The 10 and 25 versions can reward different amounts of emblems. Maybe toss in a couple EoC or an extra EoT if the kill was made on a hard mode or within a certain amount of time. Maybe even have a collection of daily/weekly quests that focus around earning achievements in the heroics that award EoT.
If we can’t already, add in the ability to compare statistics between characters in game. Seeing that someone has completed Naxx once via an achievement posting isn’t quite the same as seeing that they’ve downed every wing 30+ times.
Instead of screwing around with the emblems, keep them the same and add BoA gear to purchase with them – level 80 BoA stuff, not the heirloom items. Equip an alt with level 80 gear.
TL;DR
I won’t go as far as to say I think this is a “good” thing, there are a few points that I think need to be tweaked. I think new gear is being made too easily available, even with the amount of time it will take to “earn” that gear. I also think that with gear being even less of an indicator of skill, it will be harder for small guilds to see the new content in anything resembling a timely fashion since everyone will want achievements posted for invites.
Personally, I plan on abusing the hell out of this to make gearing my alt as painless as possible for me and my guild.

EDIT: This has turned into a 4-part series! For the full story, read all 4 posts:
Emblems of Easymode
Badges, and Emblems, and Carrots Oh My!
The Carrot Complex
The Radish Reward

EDIT #2: Just found out yesterday (7/28/09) that the NORMAL daily dungeon will no longer award an Emblem of Triumph, it will now award an Emblem of Conquest.

OK, every one is on the bandwagon talking about the emblem changes.

Before I get too far into this, I want to say I don’t have a very strong opinion about the whole mess. I’m a little irked about it and have a couple beefs, but I can also see how this will benefit me. I’m trying to find the silver lining here.

In case you’ve been living under a rock, here’s what Blizz has up their sleeve:

Emblem System Changes

  • Both the 10 and 25-player instances of the Crusaders’ Coliseum drop a new Emblem of Triumph.
  • Any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.
  • The Heroic dungeon daily quest will now reward 2 Emblems of Triumph and the normal daily dungeon quest will reward 1 Emblem of Triumph Emblem of Conquest (updated per blue post).
  • The existing achievements to collect 1, 25, 50, etc. Emblems of Heroism, Valor, and Conquest have been converted to Feats of Strength since Heroism and Valor Emblems are no longer attainable.
  • New achievements have been added to collect various amounts of any combination of emblems.

So today:

  • Heroic 5-man = EoH
  • Daily Heroic = EoH
  • VoA 10 = EoH (Archavon only)
  • VoA 10 = EoV (Emalon only)
  • Naxx 10 = EoH
  • Naxx 25 = EoV
  • Uld 10 = EoV
  • VoA 25 = EoV (Archavon only)
  • VoA 25 = EoC (Emalon only)
  • Uld 25 = EoC

Current emblem exchange is roughly like:

  • EoH = Tier 7/ilevel 200/heirloom items
  • EoV = Tier 7.5/ilevel 213
  • EoC = Tier 8/ilevel 226

And in the possible future:

  • Heroic 5-man = EoC
  • Daily Normal = EoT EoC
  • Daily Heroic = EoT
  • VoA 10 = EoC
  • Naxx 10 = EoC
  • Naxx 25 = EoC
  • Uld 10 = EoC
  • VoA 25 = EoC
  • Uld 25 = EoC
  • Coliseum 10 = EoT
  • Coliseum 25 = EoT

Emblem exchange should look like:

  • EoC = Tier 7 – Tier 8/ilevel 200 – 226/heirloom items
  • EoT = Tier 9/ilevel 232+

I think Blizz’s intention is to remove gear as the obstacle for people seeing content. Mind you, Naxx and Uld are going to be old content by the time this happens. (And let’s face it, this is from the PTR notes, this may never see the light of day.)

Beef #1: Why have the dailies give EoT? I feel those should be EoC. When the content is older, say the next patch after this, then I probably wouldn’t care,but it seems like a bit of a jump to go from Heroic to Tier 9. (Edt: Normal daily will no longer give EoT.)

What seems to be the problem?

The problem is that a fresh 80 can run heroics until his fingers bleed (or be carried through them) and purchase some snazzy Tier 8 and possibly Tier 9 gear, without having to bother with that pesky Tier 7 or even ilevel 200 crap.

This not-quite-so-fresh anymore 80 (it will take many, many runs to get enough emblems to gear this way) could then enter LFG for the Coliseum.

A quick armory shows that he’s Ulduar-level geared, so he gets invited.

He then causes a massive wipe because he’s never cleared Naxx but he’s run Heroic Nexus every day for 3 months.

What is the real problem?

Evaluating a player’s gear will no longer be an effective method of determining skill.

But you know what?

It’s not effective today.

I’ve been in plenty of PuGs where people meet the gear requirements set by the raid leader and still die in the fire. Other players in greens and blues are blowing them out of the water.

As I said several posts back,

Gear makes a player prettier. It does not automatically make a player better.

Euripedes said it another way in one of his comments:

I mean, if someone who’s never been outside of a heroic instance rolls into Ulduar with all his new shinies, he’s not going to magically apparate the skill needed to raid there.

He’s just going to look cool when he wipes.

So if we can’t use gear to exclude people, what do we use?

Comparing achievements is probably going to be the smarter way to go about weeding out baddies.

Beef #2: On my server at least, about 2 days after content hits all the LFG looks like: “LFM for InstanceX, link stats and achievement.”

This could make it even harder to get around the achievement requirements.

Are there any other problems?

Well yeah, the people that have Tier 8 now won’t be special snowflakes because all these other scrubs also have Tier 8.

Except those players that were cutting edge to Tier 8 are now going to be cutting edge to Tier 9. They shouldn’t care about Tier 8 anymore.

Will scrubs be able to get Tier 9?

Yes, it looks like they can slowly accrue enough EoT through the dailies to get a few Tier 9 pieces.

So we’ll call those “welfare nines” and we’ll look for the BoP items that prove you were there and did that.

If a baddy slips through the cracks, he gets booted. Keep note of who did well and who didn’t. Ya know, same as we do today when we pick up someone that has been carried through content.

I don’t have a beef with this. Well, I have a beef with them getting Tier 9 out of heroics, but I don’t have a problem with players having to use 4 brain cells instead of blindly trusting ilevel.

So where’s that silver lining?

I’m leveling an alt. Other people are leveling alts.

Ever had a situation like, “Oh noes, so and so (top healer or tank) is going away foreva and we need someone to fill their place. Quick! Everyone level a healing/tanking alt!”?

And everyone groans because this means that the Ulduar-raiding guild now has to slog through Naxx again to get the gear for the alt to progress. O worse, they leave the player to his own devices to gear up at the mercy of PuGs.

Or… now you can bust out some chain heroics, run a raid or two, and fill in the missing pieces with badges.

The alts won’t be top-of-the-line geared, but it will be good enough to get them back into a raid and let the player show that skill can make up for some discrepancy in gear.

I don’t see this change benefiting BRAND NEW players that are making the climb from 1 to 80. The really good players will steamroll through everything, just as they would have before, maybe faster. The mediocre players may see a little benefit since they have decent, tangible goals to shoot for in gear. This may keep them in the game long enough to pick up the missing piece in play or mechanics and become a decent raider. The baddies… will still be bad. They’ll have gear, but they won’t have titles and achievements. At least, no more than they do now.

For ALTS, I see this as a massive benefit. My guild won’t have to grind Naxx repeatedly just to get me geared enough to run in Ulduar on my priest. I’ll be able to PuG heroics (much less painful than raids) and get caught up. I will still have to run some content to get the badges, so I will still have the opportunity to learn the nuances of my new class. Blizz is not just mailing epics to people – you still have to have the time/patience/skill to run enough of something to get the badges. Or sucker enough people into carrying you through, but how is that different from now?

For people that BUY ACCOUNTS, this will come back to bite them in the ass, like it does now.

Suggestions:

Drop the daily reward from EoT to EoC to avoid that huge ilevel jump and remove “welfare nines”.

Add something like a Raid Weekly that would reward EoT for things like taking down specific bosses in Naxx/Uld/VoA/EoE/OS. The 10 and 25 versions can reward different amounts of emblems. Maybe toss in a couple EoC or an extra EoT if the kill was made on a hard mode or within a certain amount of time. Maybe even have a collection of daily/weekly quests that focus around earning achievements in the heroics that award EoT.

If we can’t already, add in the ability to compare statistics between characters in game. Seeing that someone has completed Naxx once via an achievement posting isn’t quite the same as seeing that they’ve downed every wing 30+ times.

Instead of screwing around with the emblems, keep them the same and add BoA gear to purchase with them – level 80 BoA stuff, not the heirloom items. Equip an 80 alt with level 80 gear.

TL;DR

I won’t go as far as to say I think this is a “good” thing, there are a few points that I think need to be tweaked. I think new gear is being made too easily available, even with the amount of time it will take to “earn” that gear. I also think that with gear being even less of an indicator of skill, it will be harder for small guilds to see the new content in anything resembling a timely fashion since everyone will want achievements posted for invites.

Personally, I plan on abusing the hell out of this to make gearing my alt as painless as possible for me and my guild.

[Edit: added the EoV from Emalon in 10-man.]

[Edit: updated information regarding normal daily reward dropping to EoC from EoT.]

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36 comments on “Emblems of Easymode

  1. Jess says:

    http://www.pugchecker.com

    An amazing resource to check out PUG members. Gives a list of their gear and a number of how many times they’ve beat a certain boss or done a certain instance. It also shows normal and heroic. :)

    Try it, you’ll definitely be satisfied.

  2. Vidi says:

    You mention pugchecker.com

    Check out Vidi, level 80 mage, on Wyrmrest accord. That’s me.

    Ive done Gluth a couple of times( 10 and 25 ) but my real life schedule isn’t allowing for me to raid right now. My guild isn’t happy about it because they say I’m one of the few people that can deal with the Zombie Chow effectively.

    I read WoW Wiki strats on boss fights. I listen to my raid leaders and follow their directions to the letter.

    I’m someone who always ignores my DPS in a fight. In most fights it absolutely doesn’t matter. I get people out of webbing, I survive the safety dance, I call out for one side or the other to slow DPS or speed up, I move clockwise when Thaddius changes my charge.

    I am someone that feels if I got a piece of gear earlier in the raid, passing on this next piece of gear so someone else has a chance is the right thing to do. If there is a wipe, I don’t get angry, I get determined. I don’t cause drama. And if there is drama, I don’t add to it.

    According to pugchecker, I am a scrub. And those using pugchecker.com wouldn’t let me in their pug. I haven’t downed every single wing 30+ times. And for someone else to have downed every single wing 30+ times ( on one mode lets take 25 man for this one ) They would have had to have leveled to 80 by the first week of December and successful run 25 man Naxx , all wings, every single week since!

    http://www.ez-calculators.com/how-long-until-calculator.htm

    Thats right others have ways of checking on things too ( yeah I’m THAT kind of freaky hehehe ) and Wrath of the Lick King has only been out for 32 weeks.

    Now on to emblems:

    I want to say that I do have a very strong opinion about this. I have long felt and said ( InsideAzeroth.com ) that loot distribution in WoW is an antiquated system. The random loot drop is, in my strong opinion, a “Last Gen” MMO mechanic that needs to be changed into a Next Gen MMO mechanic. While the proposed changes don’t take us all the way to Next Gen, it is a step along the correct evolutionary path, and for this I am grateful.

    If I ran 25 man Naxx every week since Wrath release ( thats if there wasnt a leveling process from 70 to 80 for both myself and those I would raid with ) and was successful every single week. Then I would have downed Gluth 32 times. The Breastplate of the Lost Vanquisher has a 24.2% drop rate and is available to 4 classes. So if it drops lets says 25% of the time that only EIGHT times I would have had a chance to roll on it. And I’m going to have to roll against the other mages, death knights, rogues and druids for the item.

    Therein lies the problem. under the current system, success is NOT rewarded. People stagnate as other players guild hop through content. We need a system like this that is friendly to both guilds and those who are successful.

  3. Nance says:

    Thanks for the mention of PUG Checker. I’m glad you’re finding it useful. It’s certainly not for everyone, and plenty of people have serious misgivings about it, but it’s not a tool made for the intention of malice or ruining other player’s in-game experience. If anything, the intention is to better your in-game experience by giving you a leaning one way or another if a PUG you are joining is going to go well or cost you time and frustration.

  4. Vidi says:

    Nace,

    you said it right. Pugchecker is a tool. Its like a hammer, used properly its valueable. Used improperly, it can break fingers or heads. I find the information there interesting and informative.

    And Ive added it to my blog page links at: http://mrgrimme.blogspot.com/

    Arioch,

    Thanks for joining our forums. Hope you enjoy the show. I’ve been reading over you blog and you got some great stuff here. Keep up the good work.

    - David, Inside Azeroth

  5. Veneretio says:

    I have a hard time really appreciating any negative response to this change because your post like many others on the topic doesn’t bring up TBC’s Badges of Justice.

    Badges of Justice could get you gear equivalent to the highest tier of raiding. Emblems are actually 1 short of that unless you put in considerable work. So really this change is just getting things back close to where they were, but still less “jump the curve” friendly then they were.

    What I can tell you is that Badges of Justice back in the day made it so experienced players actually ran the early raids over and over and it made it so those players actually did 5 mans too. 2 very good things imo.

  6. Veneretio says:

    Imagine that the Emblem change made everything drop EoT. That’s what Badges of Justice were and people loved it so much that we got an Emblem system in WotLK.

  7. Veneretio says:

    Yup, you could. In fact, you could have saved up 400 Badges and buy all of it that day. (which is what many of us did)

    I agree that the top tier should be something that takes a bit of work, but then 2 EoT from 1 quest/day is still a really long road.

    The reason I’ve always been a fan of the badge/emblem system is it’s an easy way to nerf old content (making it more accessible) without nerfing content. It forces people to still put in a lot of time in order to “nerf” the content for themselves and perhaps most missed is that it allows the often unheard 5 man only folk to actually have some way to progress their gear too. (albeit way slower than I’ll progress mine in 25 mans)

  8. Dark/Soth says:

    Veneretio, what you fail to consider is that TBC heroics were considerably harder than Wrath heroics. Not only that, but Sunwell equivalent gear cost 150 badges per piece! Not the wimpy 50-75 that is projected for 3.2 gear. Earning 150 badges in TBC was a considerable amount of work. In Wrath, you can jump into heroics in lvl 78 greens and blues and not have too much difficulty if you know what you were doing. In TBC, that was never the case. AoE fest and no kill order is not anywhere close in difficulty to needing 2 CC, smart dps, and a geared tank. Comparing badges in TBC to Emblems in 3.2 is apples to oranges.

  9. Veneretio says:

    This is hardly an apples to oranges comparison.

    Yes, that gear costed 150 badges, but then we’re also not at the Sunwell of WotLK yet either (nor even at the Black Temple of WotLK which is what Icecrown is) so I feel like the pieces aren’t horribly budgeted.

    In terms of heroics, I agree that they’re a bit easier and certainly that’s a fair point, but then we also don’t have immediate access to the top tier of Emblem loot so I feel this balances things to an extent.

  10. Dark/Soth says:

    Remind me which badge vendor in TBC sold the set of T5/T6 tokens. I can’t remember.

  11. Veneretio says:

    Tier pieces are not the be all, end all of loot. They’re the same item level as non-set loot and often inferior b/c their item budget is reduced to allow for set bonuses that are often ineffective or highly situational.

    I’m going to assume you at least agree with a bit of what I’ve said if that’s the biggest issue you could find with my counter-argument.

  12. Dark/Soth says:

    Tier loot is often the most sought after pieces. That’s what you grind the raids for, that is what you hope you get above all else, with the exception of the BiS weapon. I don’t agree that this is the same as the emblems in TBC, as you can grind inferior content and get better gear with less skill required.

    TBC:
    Higher difficulty content
    Attunements Required
    LOS pulls
    CC needed
    No Tier pieces for purchase, only through raids
    No AoE fest
    gear actually matters
    Lots of time invested for a single upgrade
    Actually drinking between pulls
    T5 equivalent pieces cost 60-90 each, T6 120-150 each

    WotLK:
    Easy Heroics (You can do VH/Uk/Nexus under 90 minutes total)
    No CC
    No hard pulls
    AoE everything
    Chain pull
    Gear doesnt matter
    Buy all 5 tier 9 pieces for 50-75 emblems each, assorted other T8 and T9 equivalents for 18-40 each
    No Attunements
    Minimal time invested for significant upgrades

    There is a significant difference in time required and skill required from the badge system in TBC and WotLK.

  13. Veneretio says:

    Now Dark/South, you’re getting somewhere. As you can see though, we’re hardly comparing Apples and Oranges. Now granted, you’re definitely making things look far more one-sided than you need to as much of what you’re saying can be summed up as “Heroics are harder”.

    My major issue with your comparisons are as such:
    - We’re still not in T5 content, that’s what Colosseum is (T9) and that loot requires considerable time since it’s EoT and not EoC which will be plentiful, so there’s no point in mentioning the old T6 prices
    - Karazhan at this point in the game was getting AOEed down too and we were getting pretty much the same number of badges that we’ll be getting from AOEing down Naxx in pretty much the same time spent. (and Kara had it’s attunement removed too)
    - It’s not better gear, it’s the same level gear
    - You’re listing buying all T9 pieces like it’s going to happen over night when in reality it’s a few emblems/day with the option of a few emblems/week killing the new VoA boss resulting in a long time before even a single piece is bought let alone all 5.

    I agree that Heroics as a whole are easier this time around, but I’d ask that you take a step back beyond your initial impulse and really look at the facts. It’s not really about Heroics. It’s about Naxx vs Karazhan. That’s where a lot of the farming is going to happen and remember all we did was zip through the easier Heroics of TBC and avoid the hard ones when grinding badges anyway.

  14. [...] if you haven’t yet wrapped your head around what all the changes mean, Clearcasting has a really excellent, thorough writeup about the Emblems changes, both explaining what you’ll be able to get from where, and why [...]

  15. Brian says:

    Many people have made the argument that the Emblem changes will make it harder to filter players based on gear. And while I initially agreed, now I’m not so sure if the change doesn’t make it EASIER to weed out bad players by looking at their gear. Contrary to how people have been treating the change, you’re not going to log in when 3.2 drops and be handed a bunch of epic gear right away…you’re going to have to work for it, at least in terms of time invested. And players who are serious about bringing their A-game to raids will put in the time necessary to be geared for them.

    Right now bad gear can be excused by not being given the opportunity to raid before. Post-3.2, if your gear STILL sucks, it’s because you just aren’t trying.

  16. Andrew says:

    Well, the requirements for buying this top level Gear has more or less stopped me from playing WoW since I reached level 80.

    No, I’m not a ‘hardcore’ player, but I used to enjoy the game!

    I was looking into some Heirloom items for my level 59 Hunter..but I realised I would need to run a 5 man Dungeon for about 16 hours, mmm..about 12 or 14 times, to afford one piece of armor. I couldn’t see myself doing that really. Nor could I imagine finding 4 other people willing to do it with me.

    Get a Guild? have one…still won’t find 5 people all the time to run the same dungeon (most efficient based on time and reward).

    The other Gear is much the same. I didn’t have to play in groups of 5, 10 and 25 and go through all that stress when I was leveling. I think 3 Man dungeons/raids whatever would be neat.

    Hey..how about scalable dungeons/raids from Solo to 5/10/25?
    No…why not? Those that like grouping etc. can have their fun…players that like to Duo or play Solo can have theirs.

    Huh? Whyat? not hardcore? Too Easy…Anathema? Blasphemy?

    *sigh*

    Well…I suppose I will need to wait on games like Champions Online, DnD Unlimited,The Secret World etc. before these MMORPGs start to make sense. Or perhaps just jump in and play Free Realms right now ;-)

    The MMORPG landscape is changing slowly. I’m sure WoW will change along with it. They are becoming as user friendly and polished as single player games (Mass Effect,Fallout,KOTOR,Fable etc. etc.) , with the added scope of MMO and are leaving the mechanics of Everquest and Ultima behind.

  17. Noel McLeod says:

    Well I know all you “hardcore” players are gonna hate me for this, but … It’s us “casual” players who are paying for the game. THere ain’t anywhere near 13 million raiders – without the vast majority of casual players Blizz can’t sustain their business model which means you can’t sustain your addiction. Sorry to throw the harsh light of economics on it, but if Blizz tels me the only way I can get the best gear is to raid and my lvl80 “scrub” is always going to be one-shotted by some a$$hole teenager who spends 40+ hours a week at it, I’m gonna take my money and go to some other game.
    I’m NEVER going to raid. EVER. WON’T EVER HAVE THE TIME.
    So get over it, there has to be welfare epics one way or another (I probably won’t ever get them anyway, but at least this way I have a chance for one of them). Othewise, I take my three accounts (mine and the kids) and spend the money elsewhere. If enough of us do that, Blizz will stop coming out with new content.
    So get over it, people.

  18. Capela says:

    Andrew do have a point. Why are players able to get the best PVP equipment in groups of 3 or 5 (and before 3.2 ships, even on groups of 2) and yet need to find groups of 25 to get the best equipment in PvE?

    (BTW, I do yearn for a way to get geared outside of groups, in no small part pecause I loathe WoW’s heroics/raid lockout mechanism. They really should find another way to control gearing speed.)

    Although I do like WoW very much, I sure hope those other MMOs can get better and start taking WoW’s players in great numbers. A de-facto monopoly situation, such as the one that has arisen from WoW’s dominance among MMOs, is only good for the dominating company.

  19. tankadin says:

    Currently, Emalon drops EoV in 10-man…

    * VoA 10 = EoH (Archavon only)
    * VoA 10 = EoV (Emalon only)

    * VoA 25 = EoV (Archavon only)
    * VoA 25 = EoC (Emalon only)

  20. Prod says:

    One of the things you are missing in your whole post is the 10-man progression path, that was treated like a stepchild before, although it had some of the hardest encounters.
    I´m from a 10-man guild and we all welcome the change very much because it sucks that players that can not even down the first 4 bosses in Ulduar run around with nearly equal Gear with just a few Naxx25 pugs, while you are clearing ulduar 10 man…
    With the next Patch 10man and 25man loot will be the same. (at least in tier pieces) With the all Emblems to EoC change we will not have a very hard time filling up some of the gap between U25 and U10 and will then rock C10 with nearly the same gear everyone else has.

    If you are now sad because 25man is not treated better anymore i have 2 things for you to look @:
    1.) our guild is somewhere on place Nr 14 in U10 progression on our server. (while we are the only guild without 25naxx and U25 first 4 bosses freeloot (ok freeloot is not entirely true)) what does that say about some 25man raidguilds?
    2.) 25man raidguilds will now have 4 Top-content IDs to raid and gear up and will therefore have the Gear in only half the time, if they really want to have better gear and invest the time.

  21. [...] Emblems of Easymode OK, every one is on the bandwagon talking about the emblem changes. Before I get too far into this, I want to say I [...] [...]

  22. Elmonde of Quel thalas says:

    Hey I am a college student and freaking I LOVE warcraft since it was born…. I find it hard to play everyday, but I try my best You know why??? well I love the game and I wanna be there when the finale goes down. I enjoy the good company I get from the people on my server to name a few- elearie, Hestunar, Longalex, Leslia, Wartles , kestrai, meganfox, oarac, odetta, leglass, tari, kayadeh, sasabasa, russako and the others in my guild. I have decent pre raid gear. I dont wanna leave my guild to join a raid one, cos a lot has been put into it and it was a safe haeven for that little boy who would run home, just to chat up with his digital friends and set off onto “epic” adventures with them. Do you know what raids have done to my guild?? – people have left , left right and center just TO farm more powerful gear for raids…… For a “child hearted, people loving person ” like me, WOW became dark and gloomy, almost as if I was forcing myself to play….. Its all about raiding, clear this boss, do that achievement etc…. I mean seriously where IS THE GOOD FUN i used to have when our guild was new a year back. Is reaching lvl 80 , raiding and having the best gear all that you want from this game?? Heck no offence to those who do, but what I mean is it could be so much more than some random bloke (90 percent of wow) telling you “your gear is not enough for ________” ….. At the end of it it bottles down to how many hours you GRIND (ya the boring grind) on WOW and how much more stats your gear has…. Who gives a rat about a storyline/making friends ?? I am of the Scions of the Sidhe and my guild has LOST 20 odd “friends” (virtual albeit) in the last 6 months to raiding and gear building. I believe that this change in emblems will be a valuable asset to players who play for the “thrill/enjoyment” of it rather than dumb “ritualistic” grinding for gear. I had more fun reaching 80 than being 80……. Hears cheers to WOW for they seem to understand. And pugchecker, heck I read up on all strats, I havent made a mess yet

  23. freedon says:

    @Noel McLeod

    Don’t even bring up the economic issue. Remember WoW started with 1mill, 2mill, 3…all the way to what it is now (12-13mill?). There was content in vanilla wow. BWL, the 4 Dragons, ZG, AQ20/40, Naxx40. Don’t tell me your big bucks are the only thing keeping wow alive. Last I heard other MMOs survive with a 1-2mill playerbase.

    If you aren’t going to use the welfare epics, then why do you need them? Completing heroics, getting frozen orbs, getting that epic item from the last boss is epic enough (for a new player).

    If you really can’t dedicate time to LFM for a 5man or even a group quest because you have to leave your desk frequently, then maybe just maybe MMORPGs aren’t for you. Just because it’s a game means it’s for everyone. I’m not a FPS fan so I don’t buy them, yet there’s tons of FPS in the game market. You CAN spend your money elsewhere

  24. Elmonde of Quel thalas says:

    What I mean to say, cmon, it becomes ritualistic after a point…….. its bad for the industry and the game developers per say….. And as far as gaming and game dev goes, its an art all by itself……

  25. Hollicow says:

    I don’t do pugs, for the main reason that there are too many “special” personalities around. However I think judging people by their achievments is an unfair assessment of their level of skill.

    Personally I have only been playing for a bit over a year, and I originally rolled a hunter. A few months ago our guild lost two of our raid healers, and one of the main tanks also left. So we had an alt revolution, and a myself and a couple of our main raiders rerolled other classes. I put my hunter in mothballs and rolled a druid. I am now healing in uldaur after having completed naxx once.

    My hunter has run naxx countless times, not to mention every other northrend dungeon, but my druid did not have this luxury. I have been lucky with rolls, and generous guildies donating some crafted or boe gear to get me up to scratch …. And looking at my achievments I am sure I look like a scrub. But I am very familiar with the fights and the responsibilites of a serious raider.

    I am sure that getting a successful pug off the ground is hard work, and raid leaders need some simple way to judge a players level of competency ….. but I don’t think that achievments are necessarily the be all and end all of competency rating.

  26. [...] into blogging by Mis my fearless leader and after reading a post linked on wow.com by Arioch on carrots or somesuch.  I wanted to be able to post replies to people and do one of the many memes out there in the [...]

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