The Radish Reward

EDIT: This has turned into a 4-part series! For the full story, read all 4 posts:
Emblems of Easymode
Badges, and Emblems, and Carrots Oh My!
The Carrot Complex
The Radish Reward

So in yesterday’s very long post I came to the conclusion that what I’m really looking for is an iconic piece of gear that provides a visual indicator that the player is skilled.

Really, it’s what I was trying to get at.

I want something I can work towards that cannot be handed to me and that I cannot be carried to. In turn, for this item to have this worth to me I would want the others sporting it to have faced the same trials and tribulations that I did to earn the piece.

It would be like our secret symbol. We pass each other on the streets of Dalaran and nod at each other, recognizing each other as a brother in arms.

My current carrot is the tier gear but the upcoming changes to badges will make it even easier (just time consuming) for any player to get their hands on my carrot.

Much as the ice stone has melted, my carrot has wilted.

Instead of looking for a carrot, I now want a radish.

One of the things that I enjoyed in the lower levels was that most of my characters were given some sort of class-specific quest chain.

Go out in the world, brave, young [insert class here] and learn how to wield this power of [insert ability here]. Return to me when you have completed this arduous task.

It was like mini-rites of passage for learning some of the beefier spells in your book.

It was also a supreme opportunity for the developers to steep you in the lore of your specific class (and sometimes race).

I know I’ve briefly mentioned it before, but the difference in learning to resurrect someone from the perspective of a dwarf paladin to that of a blood elf paladin is just incredible. I really got a feel for the difference in how each representative of the class fit into the bigger picture.

Alas, with an interest in making leveling less of a pain in the ass, Blizzard has set about removing these long, painstaking quest lines.

Hmmm…. learning to use iconic class abilities were removed in the interest of making leveling easier so people can get to end-game content faster.

At end game, there are a lot of different play styles ranging from the hardcore raiders spending hours upon hours learning to defeat the newest challenges to the ultra casuals that only get to log on once or twice a week for a few hours at a time.

I want my radish to be an indicator that an individual knows how to play well. Not only that, but it’s important to me that it be an indicator that they can play their chosen class well. The radish should be accessible to individuals and not require the support of 24 other people.

How about…

(Prepare for my idea of awesomeness that will never see the light of day inside the game but would make me the happiest player ever.)

Moving the iconic class quests to end game?

They would be completely optional, as most quests are, but would provide a plump, red radish for a lot of us.

These quest chains would have to be epic. Not long, drawn-out, tedious grinding of reputation. Not kill 25 of these and bring me 40 ears off creatures that seem to not have ears upon closer examination of their corpses. But truly epic.

These would be quest chains that would test your knowledge and your limits as a player of your class. I would expect them to be difficult enough that most people would fail them a few times.

Now here’s where the trick would be. If I were to run out to Icecrown and finish questing there (hell, if I were to ever get off my ass and START questing there), I can bring a whole pack of friends with me. Even if there is a stipulation in the quest that I can have no one else in the party (like some of the bombing run achievements), I can still have a horde of helpfuls easing my way.

The quests would have to be phased or instanced to avoid this. This should be mano-a-questo. No outside interference.

What about hybrid classes?

The developers would hate this… but the hybrid classes would need to have options.

Do you want to prove yourself as a tank, a healer, or a DPS? A separate quest line for each viable role would need to be created.

Don’t ask me what the quests would look like, that would be up to the very talented people at Blizzard.

But I do have a couple ideas.

Particularly for healers and tanks (so I think the format should spill over to DPS), they don’t shine on their own. They are an integral part of a group.

Therefore, they should be in a group. A group of non-retarded NPCs (the developers would hate that too). They’ve done this sort of thing before, think Wrathgate.

Imagine you’re a healer given a quest to join Thrall a la Durnholde Keep in Caverns of Time. You’ve also got the troll leader there (sorry, can’t remember his name and can’t be buggered to go find it) and their top generals. They are on some very important mission and it’s your responsibility to keep them alive.

Rogues could have to infiltrate some fortress and meet up with their contacts inside. Not just stealth right through the gates, but actually stick to walls, watch the movements of patrols, distract the guards, avoid the detector hounds. Once met up with the contacts, the group heads deeper into the keep and pilfers important documents, poisons a traitor, and does other rogue-type stuff.

Tanks are given the task to escort a group of refugees through hostile territory. As they are ambushed, the warrior tank has to intervene to the rescue, the paladin throws sacred shields around, whatever they do.

Mages would actually have to fucking remove curses on people in the party!!!! (Not that I’m bitter or anything about some mages not even having Remove Curse on their toolbar…)

Stuff like that.

Each class (and role within) would have these crazy, exciting quests where you could experience parts of the story that they haven’t been able to show before.

At the culmination of your quest chain you get the radish.

What should the radish be?

A title could be cool.

But quite a few titles are available through just repetitive grinds.

Arioch of Silvermoon here. And Orgrimmar. And Undercity. And Sen’Jin. Am I done jousting yet? Please? I’m tired of spamming 1.

How about a tabard?

Meh.

Are they ever going to change the graphics so it doesn’t look like I’m tucking mine in like a freaky bib? What if I want to show my guild pride? Or what if I’m still grinding rep in instances with the Ebon Blade? What if I want to stand on the steps of the bank in Dal flexing bare-chested?

It’s got to be a piece of gear.

I’m honestly thinking a weapon.

Something equivalent to the best in slot weapon available in raiding.

And since each class role would have a separate quest line, the weapon could be specific to that purpose. Wouldn’t want to give the prot pally a bunch of +spellpower and haste, would we?

I’m thinking with dual spec, classes with multiple roles would be eligible to take on each quest line available for their class. This way they could have the appropriate radish for the role they are using in the game at the appropriate time. And since it’s happening at end game, you don’t have to worry about giving experience for these quests.

For single-role classes (*cough* mage *cough*) they might have to offer a selection of weapons. I know fire likes their crit, but as arcane, I really want the haste. Maybe have some sort of exchange system if specs are changed.

And of course, the visuals on these would have to be out of the park. Beautiful and detailed. With sparkles.

It would replace that missing element of each class being special.

It would be available to the casuals and the hardcores alike.

It would require that you actually are a good player.

Most importantly…

It would fill my need to obsess over a salad fixing.

17 comments on “The Radish Reward

  1. Dirk says:

    Awesome idea on the quests.

    And a comment on the levelling grind… Blizzard is really screwing things up by removing these quest lines to get “signature” abilities.

    If they *really* want to fix things for lower-level characters, IMPROVE DROP RATES!!! If I’m questing for wolf paws, every frelling wolf should have 4 paws. Every murloc should have 2 eyes. I should be able to get more than one hunk of boar meat from a single boar in Westfall. Every Defias who is seen to wear a red bandana ought to drop one. And so on.

    Can you guess that I just started a new character? This crappy drop rate issue is the main reason I haven’t started a new one in forever. Just so incredibly annoying to have to kill 100 boars just to get 3 snouts.

    Like

  2. telanarra says:

    “Much as the ice stone has melted, my carrot has wilted.”

    They make pills for that

    Also I think putting class quests at end game would be awesome. I remember doing the class quests on both my pally and my hunter. Were they a pain yes. Did i love them anyways yes.

    Like

  3. Mairiiv says:

    Very good post.

    I was going to give quite a detailed background about my wow career as such but that’s not needed. I basically joined late in TBC, dinged lvl 70 when phase 2 of Sunwell was well underway. I stayed in my casual guild for quite a few reasons though we started raiding Kara. Never got past kara and I leveled a priest so that the guild could keep raiding (healers was and still is a premium on our realm as on many others).

    In wrath I also constantly where playing my alt(s) in guild raids and more or less joined the occasional PUG with my main (mage as well). I’ve thusfar only killed Kel’Thezud twice on my main, once with my guild once with a friend’s guild (they where doing undying run and needed to replace a DPS and knew I was a good player). Ulduar I’ve only killed FL on my mage once also with a PUG organised by someone I knew.

    Long story short to date, my main has see 2 Kel deaths, on my alts (tank and healer) I’ve seen numerous Kel deaths (10 and 25 man) as well I’ve killed the first 7 Ulduar bosses (I had to have a back to basics training with the raiders after Naxx). In the non-raiding time I’ve been more leveling alts than anything else.

    With this change I can be assured that my mage stays geared enough to be able to join a raid when there’s not need for me to tank or heal andnot be a total liability.

    I agree tier items was also my carrot, still is, but an epic quest like you explained would be excelent.

    Some input I can give around your idea would be. Blizzard should have a buff on all players that normalise stats so that whether you come into the quest in greens or T9.5 you have x spellpower, y health etc (this quest is a test of your skill not your gear). It should really be class related and can test some raid principles (don’t stand in the nasty the big nasty has put down). The weapon that you recieve should scale with your gear.

    Is this doable? I believe so

    Blizzard has already showed that they can scale weapons (heirloom items) why not just let it scale with average iLevel of your gear or your gear < req 81, they are already doing with the FL vehicles. Blizzard has before given people buffs that makes them extremely powerfull and equalise things, thinking of one of the last DK quests where you go kill patchwerk as a lvl 58…

    Like

  4. Jess says:

    Very nice.

    I’ve rolled one of each class on my server, and they are all lvl 20 or above, just so I can see their individual class quests (and learn how to play them, of course). I’ve done most of the quests in most of the areas, the notable quest lines and straggled through STV… but the class specific quests, Wow.

    While I was lvling my drood, my boyfriend was sitting beside me raiding Naxx. I got the quest to get my aquatic form and the drood-specific belt at the end. He said, “That belt doesn’t seem that cool.” I replied, “Well, I did the quest for it and it says ‘druid’… I dun care *raspberry*” LOL.

    *prances off*

    Like

  5. Troutwort says:

    I agree with your great ideas on class specific quests with NPCs. I always thought those things should be included to not only help people learn to play their class (like removing curses, etc.) but to teach them a sense of group responsibility. It’s like practice! It would be great if it could be repeated every 10 or so levels so that you could practice with new spells and abilities.

    This would help people who “I’m gonna level DPS until 80 and then switch to healing”. Those people always make me nervous. So this would at least let them practice to get a hang of the environment.

    Anyways, brilliant ideas!

    Like

  6. Millea on Bloodhoof says:

    I think that is a great idea. I would really be interested in doing something like that.

    Lower level drop rates really suck major ass. I have several alts I am working on and getting them to at least 30 just drags. I especially hate Westfall.

    Like

  7. telanarra says:

    @millea

    There is a real easy solution to ur hatred of Westfall. Roll Horde :)

    Like

  8. zupa says:

    That would be awesome!

    I dunno if you remember benediction / anathema. It was a bit like this. It was an uber lv 60 priest weapon that you could convert from a healing staff (benediction) into a spriest staff (anathema)

    it was really hard to get, required lots of… something that priests do. It Looked awesome, it was huge, it had sparkles, it was plainly obvious that a priest had it because it was unique looking.

    And it meant that priest knew what was up, or at least had spent a lot of time at level cap getting that weapon.

    As a mage I was always annoyed that we had no class – specific “radish” like the priests had their anathema.

    I’d love to see a set of weapons and quest lines like you have proposed. Top stuff :)

    Like

  9. Millea says:

    @ Tel I have several Horde :D

    I am currently leveling a BE warlock. Just hit 25 with her the other day. The problem is I am an officer in my alliance guild so I kind of can’t switch to my horde characters full time, even though I prefer them to my alliance ones.

    Like

  10. gnomeaggedon says:

    Mmm makes me think of my pet pig… which pig.. whichever thing I want to be a pig…

    I loved that quest…

    As one of those casuals, I would love such a thing… make the quest chain 50 quests long for all I care… make it one part max per day to slow down (but not stop) the hardcore… really stretch it out.

    Anything that doesn’t *require* me to log on every day to get a bit to put with something else that eventually will give me one something (I hate Dalaran cooking dailies).

    Speaking of which… I think they should introduce high level crafting quests along the same lines… I want a long quest line that will allow me to learn how to make “spellfire” gear… “equivelent” of BiS, but without having the need to be in a BiS guild, or play 4 nights a week.

    I also want a quest line that allows me to learn a portal spell for the last boss in a raid… How much I want to get to Sapp & KT on the 1st raid night… I only get one per week, so it’s not much good to me that the raid finishes off Sapp and KT 1st thing the next night…

    Like

  11. some orc says:

    i want a pumpkin

    Like

  12. Sleipnir/Dragosani of Chogall says:

    as a variation on this idea, i suggest that the end reward for hunters is the ability to tame large beasts as mounts >.>

    … we have all wanted this for some time and i wouldn’t mind going through a long and arduous quest chain to be able to see my dwarf riding on a mount that only hunters can get.


    if blizz finds that too hard to implement, how about a visible quiver with more than just haste and slots, but has a drastic effect on our pets, ie: tenacity pets get bonus threat and are uncrittable, ferocity pets increase dps and crit rate, and cunning pets gain increased duration of their debuffs and lowered focus costs…

    if they went with the uber weapon idea, there would have to be several variants due to the unfairness of racials affecting the effectiveness and potency of them (ie: dwarves + gun = bonus +1% crit rate)

    …………….. only other suggestion i have is to give a new demon to warlocks that can dps and/or tank lol
    i’m kinda sick of looking at my voidwalker for 79 levels on my alt >.>

    Like

  13. Braille says:

    Arioch, I highly recommend that you find a walkthrough for the Hunter’s level 60 class quest that began when the “Ancient Petrified Leaf” dropped from Majordomo, the second to last boss in Molten Core.

    That will show you what is possible from the perspective of “test your skill at your class”. It’s probably the best they can ever do for a hunter to test how well someone can play that class, since it asks the player to use spells that they should know how to use well to be a good hunter.

    Unfortunately, it will also show you this: No matter how well they program it, clever people will find ways around the programming, and normal people will read those walkthroughs and discover the “cheese” methods, use them, and get your Radish.

    For instance, despite the “no grouping for this part” restrictions, the walkthrough will probably detail a few options that people can do to have non-grouped folks help out with the quest.

    The closest thing to a Radish we can ever get is stuff like the Ulduar Hard Modes. My guild doesn’t have enough excellent people in one raid to do them, but from what I understand, if every single person isn’t doing everything right, it fails. Heck, a lot of them are set up so that if you don’t have a group of excellent players already, you can’t even activate the Hard Mode.

    Now, you can still probably carry someone through that, once the rest of the group can compensate for them. I suppose the one guy who’s being carried through can just run up to the boss at the start, get killed, watch the battle as a corpse, and get the loot. But I suspect that by the time the other 9 or 24 people are good enough to drag someone through, there is another level of raid out with new Radishes.

    And think of the gear progression spectrum. Molten Core was the first Raid, but by the time the first expansion hit, there was Blackwing Lair, The Temple of Ahn’Qiraj, and Naxxramas. How good should the quest reward from the first raid be? Better than anything up through to the last raid of the expansion? Seems like that would be necessary, since you want the Radish to at least last until you get another expansion with a new set of levels.

    Sounds like you want a single amazing item to show that you’re good at your class, but I suspect that it would have to be cosmetic like a title or tabard anyway to prevent the scaling problems… and it still wouldn’t last past an expansion, so there’d need to be a new set of class quests every expansion. Tell me, which zone’s quests would you like to toss out of Lich King to make time in the development cycle for intricate quest chains for 10 classes? Just 5 steps in the quest chain is 50 quests, which is about 2/3 of the quests in Sholozar Basin or Grizzly Hills.

    Like

  14. Aleysha says:

    Will you marry me? Oh, wait! You’re married. And… now that I think about it… so am I. hehe

    But your idea is awesome. When I stated playing the game back then in the stone age and did all those epic class quests I honestly thought that would be the norm for the end-game. And it sort of was, does anyone remember Benediction/Anathema ? Or that epic hunter quest where they could not get any help at all? Even a single buff would mean fail?

    Not that I don’t like dungeons and raids, I do. But sometimes I would like to have a challenge just for me.

    Like

  15. Glen says:

    As a priest I always wanted Benediction/Anathema, but I didn’t join wow until right after BC and no one wanted to run the MC so I could get the Eye of Divinity.

    I agree we need some end game class quests.

    Like

  16. [...] I started this draft post a while ago in response to a post about class only quests. Since then Larisa has asked about skill improvement and I have mooted boot camps, so on with the [...]

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s