Why are we running 25s again?

The Citadel falls before us every week without much effort at all.

We can even carry a few people through the Citadel and not break any backs.

Enter the Plagueworks…

There is a line between raiders.

On one side of the line are people that can react to a new situation, take stock of the decisions available and respond instantly to the directives of the raid leader.

On the other side are the people that either can’t or won’t do the above.

For the most part, the Citadel is full of fights that require the group as a whole to function above a certain level, but there is little pressure on the individual.

Marrowgar requires that your tanks be in tune with each other but is other wise a fight that only requires a couple people be intelligent enough to switch to bone spikes.

Lady Deathwhisper again only requires that a few individuals be capable of target swapping and providing crowd control. Even the loss of one or two people to standing in the bad is not going to be detrimental to the raid in this day and age of the pity buff.

Gunship. Do I even have to go in to how easy the “lootship” is? So long as your jumping tank has a clue, your cannons are manned with people that can follow basic directions, and your jumping crew can aim a green circle and target a stationary mob, you’re golden.

Saurfang. OK, it was tough at first. But now we are at 10% buff and all the gear we’ve accumulated from farming the Citadel and random heroics. With the damage we’re putting out, 2 marks in 25 is about all we get. Again, only a handful of people need to process target swaps and everyone just needs to find a spot that’s 10 yards away from everyone else and STAY there. (Or 11 or 12 or whatever the hell it is. Pick a spot, don’t move. If you have to move, move back.)

Things in the Citadel happen in nice, controlled, orderly fashions. There is very little variation. MC targets on LDW and Mark of the Fallen Champion on Saurfang are pretty much the extent of the randomness.

Move into the Plagueworks.


We need 8 people to be at range. Those 8 people all need to be 8-10 yards apart from each other. Easy, right?


Then add in the 3 spores.

3 spores that land on 3 random players.

1 spore needs to end up in melee.

1 in ranged.

And 1 needs to GTFO.

You can set up instructions so skull always goes to melee and X always goes to ranged and square always GTFOs.

But that’s a waste of DPS time if skull was in range and X was in melee.

It’s a tight enrage timer when you’re dragging pugs (and a few under-performing guildies, I won’t lie) through there.

Is it so much to ask that people NOTICE the goddamn mark on their head and respond to instructions in vent?

Clear instructions, like, “Skull move to melee.”

Apparently, it is.

Festergut is even worse.

Slimes everywhere.

Actually, mostly just slimes in the raid.

And people STILL have to be told to get out of slime spray. That’s like having to be told to get out of the fire. Guess which side of the line those raiders fall on.

Festergut and Rotface are two encounters where the success of the raid depends on the success of EVERY individual.

We can try to control the damage a wee bit in Festergut with who gets selected to be on the outside. But ultimately, it has to be characters with ranged capabilities. The best person at following directions does no good on the outside if they are melee.

In the Rotface fight, there is no damage control. The best you can do is have good tanks and good healers and hope to hell that the intelligent people get hit with the slimes. Of course, those also tend to be your better DPS/tanks/healers so you’re hoping that they lose DPS time to dealing with slimes so the rabble can pewpew on the boss without fucking anything up. Seems a little counterproductive, no?

So, yes, I’m a little frustrated at where we are in 25s. Getting more of our own will help. But only in that at least it will be my raid kittens I can yell at instead of strangers.


(More pictures tomorrow! Don’t spoil it!)


15 comments on “Bah

  1. Alas says:

    “There is a line between raiders.

    On one side of the line are people that can react to a new situation, take stock of the decisions available and respond instantly to the directives of the raid leader.

    On the other side are the people that either can’t or won’t do the above.”

    This. OMG, THIS. We’ve somehow managed to get through Rotface and Festergut, but yes, the line is showing there and more so on Putricide. Makes me fear for the other wings.


  2. koalabear21 says:

    I think I need to drink when we do 25s more often. Yes I was still pissy with the people who cannot follow simple instructions but I wasn’t raging as much.

    I am still crying over the loss of those pants. >.>


    One day I will win the warlock token too. 2 keep dropping each week, eventually Arvash and Lyihe will have gotten all of the ones they will ever need and I can win one.

    Who am I kidding? I’ll lose it to the other warlock again >.<

    In other news, Sindragosa tonight.

    It is dragon killing time. ^_^


  3. […] Midweek blues… /coffee Filed Under: priest, raids by slice213 — Leave a comment April 21, 2010 […]


  4. Ak says:

    Yeah, Uncle Fester and Rotty are the PuG Eliminators, (*cue Sasuke/Ninja Warrior Music*) for pretty much the reasons you described.

    We were doing great though, right up till we faceplanted on the Wonder Twins.

    Ah well. Badges and (drunken) good times were had by all so I’ll mark it as a moral victory, at least.


  5. zarigar says:

    That Festergut fight should not have been so difficult. And I wouldn’t be surprised if I show up as one of the underperforming guildies. It is very frustrating when–told to stay 10 yards apart from someone else–I have to constantly adjust myself because the same hunter kept nudging themselves into my zone. Or someone decides to stay out at range even though they weren’t specifically told to do so. And then THEY get in my range. Or you decide to give someone the cake job of literally just standing in one area and don’t move…and they fail that.

    It’s enough to make me want to tear my mohawk out.


    • koalabear21 says:

      You mean someone was hugging your bubble?

      Welcome to my world


    • Tirael says:

      All that, Zari, and imagine how it looked from my PoV. I won’t lie, I was absolutely fucking vexxed at some of our raiders last night. To those of you who did your job, I thank you for being great raiders, being a part of the SR raid team, and your infinite patience.

      To those of you who provided your interpretation of a Jerry’s Kid taking ritalin while being supported by a crutch made of toothpicks, follow my instructions. I will NEVER tell you to do something that I have not PERSONALLY done. I have downed EVERY fight we are trying as a tank, a ranged dps, a healer, and as a melee dps in both ICC 10 and 25. The chances of me having not tried something that YOU think you you should be doing are very slim. Being in a raid (and for that matter being a raider) is not just about your personal dps, it is about doing what is best for the collective group. If what you are doing is helping the group, great. If what you are doing either A) Is killing the group or B) Against what the raid leader has SPECIFICALLY instructed you to do, you are wrong. Period.


      Do what is asked of you, not what you want to do. Raiding is not about individuals or individual success. It is about the raid’s success as a whole. You want individual success, go solo an old world boss. You want to progress, get newer/better gear, and get the Kingslayer title, come to my raids. Otherwise, DO NOT waste my time. More importantly, DO NOT waste the time of your fellow guildmates, which is more important to me than my own.


  6. Imoh says:

    “And people STILL have to be told to get out of slime spray. That’s like having to be told to get out of the fire.”

    I actually failed to that last night, about 3 seconds into the fight, it was bloody pathetic.

    Made me laugh a little though, for the majority of 25 man hardmodes if someone dies you battle res asap, or even just wipe it up (fukn Saufang), not Rotface though, that loot pinata will fall over with only a handful of people alive.


  7. Rurjaos says:

    It makes me “Arrgh” everytime I see some regular members of our MOR (Malygos Open Raid) or new pugs within our 25s failing at the same things again and again, where our stable 10s succeed without any problems. Even worse, when those people make the good ones fail.
    No losses on Festergut or Rotface in 10s, 12-man-standing in 25s, guess who…


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